Pretty nice setup
How many people are there on average? I used to spend a lot of time at PlanetPoker.com, but the biggest issue was finding a game during off peak hours.
I do like the idea of tournaments where everyone buys in and then you play till there is one man (or woman) standing. Thats how we play on the weekends. Keeps that jackass from taking you in a close hand and then just getting up an leaving. grr.. thats frustrating. In a last-man-standing tourney, skill almost always wins, thats how it should be.
I suppose I should just download it, but I'm at a public computer right now, so maybe when I get home. Till then, anyone tried it? Experiences? Comments? Good, bad, etc...
I do like the idea of tournaments where everyone buys in and then you play till there is one man (or woman) standing. Thats how we play on the weekends. Keeps that jackass from taking you in a close hand and then just getting up an leaving. grr.. thats frustrating. In a last-man-standing tourney, skill almost always wins, thats how it should be.
I suppose I should just download it, but I'm at a public computer right now, so maybe when I get home. Till then, anyone tried it? Experiences? Comments? Good, bad, etc...
Anyone who gets into an online poker game for real money has to have rocks in their head. Unless it is just a casino game with one person playing poker against a computer do you think a multiple player online game is not full of partners on the phone with each other sharing their hands and squeezing the other players in the game?
Is that really you??
Petey,
It is a popular misconception that it is easier to collude online. However, the truth is, it's actually easier to detect collusion online vs. offline. The reason for this is the fact that we have access to all of the game logs of every player and any suspicious activity can be detected in real time as well as over a period of time. We will be using every tool available to us in order to detect and prevent collusion, and offenders will be permanently banned from playing at our tables.
We are fully aware that two or more players may be sitting at different computers in the same room, or may simply be communicating by phone. Not only can they collude to raise the pot and drive out other players, but they can share the contents of their hands. In order to combat this, we have designed a series of special proprietary data processing tools. First of all, we will continually track the betting pattern of each player as well as the correlation between the play pattern of two or more players and their overall win percentage. Anyone whose win percentage is out of line is immediately placed under investigation. What this basically means is that we will be monitoring people (or groups of people) who tend to play together a lot in order to assure that they simply enjoy playing together and are not engaging in any attempt at collusion. We also have software that assists our security employees in warning whether a player is raising on a weak hand or folding on a strong one, suggesting the player might be colluding. In many cases, a manual investigation of the hand will probably indicate that the player may have made a mistake or was simply ignorant. However, if the question remains unresolved, we will immediately send an e-mail to the player notifying him that we are suspicious. If the suspicious behavior continues, the player will be banned from our card rooms immediately.
Our customers are very important to us as well. They are obviously our first line of defense and are always encouraged to notify us of any suspicious behavior as it happens. These notifications will immediately prompt our "eye in the sky" to look into the matter with intense scrutiny.
We take the matter of collusion very seriously and will use absolutely every tool necessary to maintain the ingegrity of our card rooms.
As a last note: should you, or anyone else, suspect that players are acting together during play, we encourage you to please forward the game information (including the hand # or #'s, and the suspect's screen name) as well as your comments to us: poker@wsex.com.
WSEX
It is a popular misconception that it is easier to collude online. However, the truth is, it's actually easier to detect collusion online vs. offline. The reason for this is the fact that we have access to all of the game logs of every player and any suspicious activity can be detected in real time as well as over a period of time. We will be using every tool available to us in order to detect and prevent collusion, and offenders will be permanently banned from playing at our tables.
We are fully aware that two or more players may be sitting at different computers in the same room, or may simply be communicating by phone. Not only can they collude to raise the pot and drive out other players, but they can share the contents of their hands. In order to combat this, we have designed a series of special proprietary data processing tools. First of all, we will continually track the betting pattern of each player as well as the correlation between the play pattern of two or more players and their overall win percentage. Anyone whose win percentage is out of line is immediately placed under investigation. What this basically means is that we will be monitoring people (or groups of people) who tend to play together a lot in order to assure that they simply enjoy playing together and are not engaging in any attempt at collusion. We also have software that assists our security employees in warning whether a player is raising on a weak hand or folding on a strong one, suggesting the player might be colluding. In many cases, a manual investigation of the hand will probably indicate that the player may have made a mistake or was simply ignorant. However, if the question remains unresolved, we will immediately send an e-mail to the player notifying him that we are suspicious. If the suspicious behavior continues, the player will be banned from our card rooms immediately.
Our customers are very important to us as well. They are obviously our first line of defense and are always encouraged to notify us of any suspicious behavior as it happens. These notifications will immediately prompt our "eye in the sky" to look into the matter with intense scrutiny.
We take the matter of collusion very seriously and will use absolutely every tool necessary to maintain the ingegrity of our card rooms.
As a last note: should you, or anyone else, suspect that players are acting together during play, we encourage you to please forward the game information (including the hand # or #'s, and the suspect's screen name) as well as your comments to us: poker@wsex.com.
WSEX
I would feel completely comfortable playing with WSEX. Their reputation is excellent. Even if a couple of players were working together it does'nt mean they will win. And, as WSEX points out these people will be easily detected and then banned.
WSEX is not the problem. Do you even have a clue what two or three peole working together can do in a poker game? You have NO CHANCE to win over a period of time. Nobody's software can stop this. Two players on the phone with each other on the computer playing poker can make a nice living playing cards every day. If they open multiple accounts and constantly switch partners it is 1000-1 shot that any company would catch them. If you want to use WSEX's good reputation at taking sports bets to think that playing poker there is safe, well then good luck to you. Any Poker player who knows the game will tell you to stand clear of any online poker games.
After about the fourth hand, this other guy I was playing with became suspicious. They knew when to raise and when to fold. It was becoming ridiculous. Nobody is that damn lucky. The person that was running that site told me when he folded on two pair, he figured something was up. In the end, it was a $468 lesson that I won't forget. That guy has similar measures (like WSEX)to combat cheaters but it still didn't get me back my money.
The rareity of sports books incorporating poker rooms into there line-up are a thing of the past
/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif . To my knowledge 3 books offer not only java casinos,but virtual Poker Rooms as well.
Download software, set up account and your ready to rock n roll!
BetCris - www.americascardroom.com
VIP Sports - www.planetpoker.com
World Sports Exchange - www.wsex.com
/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif . To my knowledge 3 books offer not only java casinos,but virtual Poker Rooms as well.
Download software, set up account and your ready to rock n roll!
BetCris - www.americascardroom.com
VIP Sports - www.planetpoker.com
World Sports Exchange - www.wsex.com
As much as I believe WSEX and their intent, stopping cheaters is tough if not impossible in poker. Collusion is very very difficult to prove as you need to prove intent. Proving that a player wasn't bluffing but was actually building a pot for his partner is difficult. How about misread hands? I thought I had the flush!!?! In live games they will raise the pot over and over and then muck their hands before the last card to avoid having to show their cards and verify they were playing (and raising) with garbage. Sure it's easy to catch hold out guys if you count the decks every so often but proving two or more are playing as a team is not easy. Not easy at all.
I've played cards professionally for a number of years and would not, nor have I ever invested a nickel in on-line poker. At best you have 3 or 4 buddies on telephones telling each other what to do, won't even go to the worst case scenario. Another thing. The house is not very concerned with cheaters. Either on-line or in a real poker room. Why? Because the house makes their cut or rake out of every hand. It doesn't matter who wins to them, the vig/rake comes out of the winning pot each hand. The only reason they make an effort to address cheaters is to make the players feel comfortable. Make the players think that old "eye in the sky" is watching every raise, check-raise and bluff and can prove when players are working together. Yeah right. They aren't concerned about it and aren't going to invest a lot of time, money or effort in stopping it as it is virtually impossible anyway to prove collusion. Now cheating at the dice or blackjack table is entirely different. From there you are stealing from the house, not the other players. It used to be it was a felony to be caught cheating the casino at anything but the poker room. Get caught with a shape (a loaded dice) or a wire at blackjack and see what happens. However if you got caught in the poker room you were simply kicked out and asked not to return. I'm sure you can figure out why. Stealing from the other players in poker is okay as it is not the casino's money. Stealing anywhere else and there is hell to pay.
Anybody that plays cards on line is absolutely nuts. Here are my favorite excuses from the idiots that play on-line:
I only play 3 & 6 hold-em (or whatever), if they are going to cheat they would go for the higher games. This is my favorite excuse. Of course we know the folks running the game could care less anyway, but if they did they probably would look first at the higher games. Might as well make the high rollers feel safe first. Don't you think the cheaters know this as well? Playing the lower stake games you are probably even more at risk than in the bigger limit games. I play hearts on line and they will cheat to build their rating without a nickel profit being involved. They have 2 guys usually playing together on the phone with each other to beat you and there is absolutely no prize money to be won!! I guess it's ego? But to say people wouldn't bother to cheat for smaller amounts is completely off-base. People will cut your stomach out of you for a $5 dollar bill, and yes they will cheat for a couple hundred a night. Better wise up if you don't believe that and say hello to the planet earth. Matter of fact I may have a chair at my next poker game if you are interested if you are that simple-minded. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Heck I can win even if there are several men playing together or a glitch in the program. Call this guy Sammy the Sucker. He is everywhere folks. He is the guy that has been "tearing the horses up" and that 27% vig for years according to him, but is often seen at the pawn shop sneaking in the back door paying off his "loans". He's the guy that plays 10-team parlays and can't figure out why they don't hit. Plays the lotto religiously and still tells about the big score he had 20 years ago betting sports. And yes he has no chance in poker. This guy couldn't win at the track if he had tomorrows paper. Couldn't win in poker if everyone played their hands face up. While he wins way more pots than everyone else combined he can't figure out why he loses. Might want to start by folding a hand every 8 hours or so. These guys are great for serious gamblers because they usually don't care if they win or lose as long as they are identified as winners. These guys play for lots of reasons but one is usually to feed an over-sized ego. I use to take a nice days pay off a lawyer playing gin twice a week or so before the poker game. The only requirement made of me was for me to pat the fish on the head once in a while. That always kept him coming back. He didn't care about the money as much as he did wanting people to think he was a winner at cards. Maybe before the poker game started I would say so plenty could hear dang that Sammy the Sucker can play some gin! He has been murdering me for months now!! With a smile wider than RoseAnn Barr at the all-you-can-eat buffet he would beam like a $2 dollar whore on GI payday. And yes he would be there first thing the next morning with cards and pad waiting for me. I got so good I could time his losses and usually circle back and pick up some nice chains and stuff he would get rid of at the pawn shop. These kind of suckers are the ones that play on line. If this is you, I ALWAYS HAVE AN EXTRA CHAIR FOR YOU OR SAMMY IF YOU WANT TO COME BY AND PLAY A FEW HANDS!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
There are more but I don't want to go into any more detail. Heck I could write a book about poker and cheaters. If the RX ever expands into monitoring the poker sites than I am the first in line. I don't mean to make this sound too light-hearted but I seriously would not advise anyone to be playing poker on-line. It just is not in your best interest folks. E-mail me if you need any further assistance.
I'M PATRICK MCIRISH AND YOU'VE JUST BEEN EDUCATED!!!!!
[This message was edited by Patrick McIrish on 02-10-02 at 09:14 PM.]
I've played cards professionally for a number of years and would not, nor have I ever invested a nickel in on-line poker. At best you have 3 or 4 buddies on telephones telling each other what to do, won't even go to the worst case scenario. Another thing. The house is not very concerned with cheaters. Either on-line or in a real poker room. Why? Because the house makes their cut or rake out of every hand. It doesn't matter who wins to them, the vig/rake comes out of the winning pot each hand. The only reason they make an effort to address cheaters is to make the players feel comfortable. Make the players think that old "eye in the sky" is watching every raise, check-raise and bluff and can prove when players are working together. Yeah right. They aren't concerned about it and aren't going to invest a lot of time, money or effort in stopping it as it is virtually impossible anyway to prove collusion. Now cheating at the dice or blackjack table is entirely different. From there you are stealing from the house, not the other players. It used to be it was a felony to be caught cheating the casino at anything but the poker room. Get caught with a shape (a loaded dice) or a wire at blackjack and see what happens. However if you got caught in the poker room you were simply kicked out and asked not to return. I'm sure you can figure out why. Stealing from the other players in poker is okay as it is not the casino's money. Stealing anywhere else and there is hell to pay.
Anybody that plays cards on line is absolutely nuts. Here are my favorite excuses from the idiots that play on-line:
I only play 3 & 6 hold-em (or whatever), if they are going to cheat they would go for the higher games. This is my favorite excuse. Of course we know the folks running the game could care less anyway, but if they did they probably would look first at the higher games. Might as well make the high rollers feel safe first. Don't you think the cheaters know this as well? Playing the lower stake games you are probably even more at risk than in the bigger limit games. I play hearts on line and they will cheat to build their rating without a nickel profit being involved. They have 2 guys usually playing together on the phone with each other to beat you and there is absolutely no prize money to be won!! I guess it's ego? But to say people wouldn't bother to cheat for smaller amounts is completely off-base. People will cut your stomach out of you for a $5 dollar bill, and yes they will cheat for a couple hundred a night. Better wise up if you don't believe that and say hello to the planet earth. Matter of fact I may have a chair at my next poker game if you are interested if you are that simple-minded. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Heck I can win even if there are several men playing together or a glitch in the program. Call this guy Sammy the Sucker. He is everywhere folks. He is the guy that has been "tearing the horses up" and that 27% vig for years according to him, but is often seen at the pawn shop sneaking in the back door paying off his "loans". He's the guy that plays 10-team parlays and can't figure out why they don't hit. Plays the lotto religiously and still tells about the big score he had 20 years ago betting sports. And yes he has no chance in poker. This guy couldn't win at the track if he had tomorrows paper. Couldn't win in poker if everyone played their hands face up. While he wins way more pots than everyone else combined he can't figure out why he loses. Might want to start by folding a hand every 8 hours or so. These guys are great for serious gamblers because they usually don't care if they win or lose as long as they are identified as winners. These guys play for lots of reasons but one is usually to feed an over-sized ego. I use to take a nice days pay off a lawyer playing gin twice a week or so before the poker game. The only requirement made of me was for me to pat the fish on the head once in a while. That always kept him coming back. He didn't care about the money as much as he did wanting people to think he was a winner at cards. Maybe before the poker game started I would say so plenty could hear dang that Sammy the Sucker can play some gin! He has been murdering me for months now!! With a smile wider than RoseAnn Barr at the all-you-can-eat buffet he would beam like a $2 dollar whore on GI payday. And yes he would be there first thing the next morning with cards and pad waiting for me. I got so good I could time his losses and usually circle back and pick up some nice chains and stuff he would get rid of at the pawn shop. These kind of suckers are the ones that play on line. If this is you, I ALWAYS HAVE AN EXTRA CHAIR FOR YOU OR SAMMY IF YOU WANT TO COME BY AND PLAY A FEW HANDS!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
There are more but I don't want to go into any more detail. Heck I could write a book about poker and cheaters. If the RX ever expands into monitoring the poker sites than I am the first in line. I don't mean to make this sound too light-hearted but I seriously would not advise anyone to be playing poker on-line. It just is not in your best interest folks. E-mail me if you need any further assistance.
I'M PATRICK MCIRISH AND YOU'VE JUST BEEN EDUCATED!!!!!
[This message was edited by Patrick McIrish on 02-10-02 at 09:14 PM.]
>I've played cards professionally for a number of years and would not, nor have I ever invested a nickel in on-line poker. <
Yes Patrick, this is why your completely unqualified to elaborate on it.
If I am getting cheated at WSEX Poker Room.....keep it coming! I won $494 playing 5/10 Hold'em while watching sports. I also won $100 in the WSEX Free-Roll Tournaments.
Thanks WSEX......poker makes sports 10x as good!
Card Father
Yes Patrick, this is why your completely unqualified to elaborate on it.
If I am getting cheated at WSEX Poker Room.....keep it coming! I won $494 playing 5/10 Hold'em while watching sports. I also won $100 in the WSEX Free-Roll Tournaments.
Thanks WSEX......poker makes sports 10x as good!
Card Father
I personally busted three separate groups of cheaters in the tournaments at paradisepoker...no matter how you spin, no matter how hard you try to stop...it happens...
I turned all three of them in...and NEVER recieved a response from Paradise...I never saw them again, but as a result..I ended my online poker career....
Situation:
Big Blind $4100 (with 600 in the Big Blind)
Sml. Blnd $450 (with 300 in the small blind)
Me........$2550
Action starts with me folding, then the small blind raises all-in...the big blind only needs to call 150 dollars....
Question: Is there any hand that you DO NOT CALL with, in this situation, with 600 already invested, and a guy 150 away from bust...?
Well, the Big Blind folds, handing a guy 1350 in chips and back in the game....
Answer: It doesnt matter what hand you have, you call with any two cards here.. Clearly the two were sharing chips, doing all they could to secure 1st and 2nd...
That's just one example...
I turned all three of them in...and NEVER recieved a response from Paradise...I never saw them again, but as a result..I ended my online poker career....
Situation:
Big Blind $4100 (with 600 in the Big Blind)
Sml. Blnd $450 (with 300 in the small blind)
Me........$2550
Action starts with me folding, then the small blind raises all-in...the big blind only needs to call 150 dollars....
Question: Is there any hand that you DO NOT CALL with, in this situation, with 600 already invested, and a guy 150 away from bust...?
Well, the Big Blind folds, handing a guy 1350 in chips and back in the game....
Answer: It doesnt matter what hand you have, you call with any two cards here.. Clearly the two were sharing chips, doing all they could to secure 1st and 2nd...
That's just one example...
Absolutely. The only reason player A wants to push his chips to player B is so they have two shots to beat you instead of one. OF COURSE THEY ARE PLAYING TOGETHER! They will split the winnings after eliminating you. There is no scenario where he doesn't call. I'm assuming you were playing Hold 'em but whatever you are playing makes no difference. You call with a 2, 7 off suit even. Why people think I would lie is humorous. I would guess Cardfather is connected with the site otherwise he will be in for a rude awakening one day. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
I actually know of people that cheat the players on these sites on a regular basis. Of course I would never ever be involved though. I ain't making this stuff up folks. They talk over the tables all the time in casinos of how they are killing these on-line poker sites with team play and collusion.
For you Sammy the Sucker...err, I mean CardFather. Great job. Since you have won you are right, must not be any cheating going on. We all made it up I suppose. I can almost tell you hardly ever lose I bet. Hit any 10 team parlays lately? In case you need it I have provided the link for after they have sufficiently sucked you in:
closespawnshop@Ivelostmyass.com
After removing the hook from your mouth contact me if you play gin. I'm not very good at it myself and I can just tell you are a top player like in poker.
I actually know of people that cheat the players on these sites on a regular basis. Of course I would never ever be involved though. I ain't making this stuff up folks. They talk over the tables all the time in casinos of how they are killing these on-line poker sites with team play and collusion.
For you Sammy the Sucker...err, I mean CardFather. Great job. Since you have won you are right, must not be any cheating going on. We all made it up I suppose. I can almost tell you hardly ever lose I bet. Hit any 10 team parlays lately? In case you need it I have provided the link for after they have sufficiently sucked you in:
closespawnshop@Ivelostmyass.com
After removing the hook from your mouth contact me if you play gin. I'm not very good at it myself and I can just tell you are a top player like in poker.
Hey Pat...tone it down a bit fella...
My post's intent wasn't to lend support to you, in fact..I didn't even read your post prior to posting mine..
That being said, you are wrong on a number of accounts. I won money there. A very good hold' em player can win despite the cheating. I simply said it existed, and I didn't feel as though Paradise cared as much as they should, so I quit, I may play at WSEX. If I played anywhere it would be there or at Cris, if they get enough players... Tournaments only...wont play live action.
But you calling others "suckers" out of your excitment to be "right", is wrong, and I think a little bit prickish...
Good luck to you fellas.
Iron.
My post's intent wasn't to lend support to you, in fact..I didn't even read your post prior to posting mine..
That being said, you are wrong on a number of accounts. I won money there. A very good hold' em player can win despite the cheating. I simply said it existed, and I didn't feel as though Paradise cared as much as they should, so I quit, I may play at WSEX. If I played anywhere it would be there or at Cris, if they get enough players... Tournaments only...wont play live action.
But you calling others "suckers" out of your excitment to be "right", is wrong, and I think a little bit prickish...
Good luck to you fellas.
Iron.
I have heard of Paradise Poker and I know they are big in the poker business. But, who are they, where are they located, and who are the key people? Does anyone know.
You know exactly who you are dealing with at WSEX. And you know they will follow up and do their best to fight collusion. WSEX has a huge interest in maintaining it's good name. So they do care.
I was watching a Meyer Lansky piece on TV a while back. The main reason his casinos were so successful was because he was known to run an honest shop. His reputation made his casinos the place to play. I am sure WSEX will be the online place to play.
You know exactly who you are dealing with at WSEX. And you know they will follow up and do their best to fight collusion. WSEX has a huge interest in maintaining it's good name. So they do care.
I was watching a Meyer Lansky piece on TV a while back. The main reason his casinos were so successful was because he was known to run an honest shop. His reputation made his casinos the place to play. I am sure WSEX will be the online place to play.
